Curse

pionata · Jun 09, 2005, 04:31 AM // 04:31

Meaning, if runes are no longer special, what is?

I know monsters wont drop a 15k armor piece... but realy thats not what I want. The game need some NEW realy rare items else its going to get boring fast.

Great game, but giving the runes to everyone removed the joy of finding one. The other updates I like, but I think a special signet should have been made to capture after (that cost more).

spiritofcat · Jun 09, 2005, 04:40 AM // 04:40

The whole idea is that there aren't meant to be really rare things that you have to spend hours and hours looking for.

pionata · Jun 09, 2005, 04:58 AM // 04:58

Yeah, but I mean, why is there drops then. They way its going now every drop I get I just end up selling it to a merchant. If they want to go that way they might as well drop only gold.... (gosh I hope not)

Im happy with the game, its just I would want it to be perfect. Now all I need is a superior rune of Vigor and my character will be maxed out (As how I want it), without any hope left of getting just a minor item that would give him another pts of fire or something.

I think there should be items like this for example with a very rare chance of appearing (1/25000 or something) (Fire Wands):

Fire Wand of mass Healing (heals 5 pts to all party members when strike)

Fire Wand of Major Healing (adds 2 points to healing)
Fire Wand of Superior Healing (adds 3 points to healing)

Every combination possible would be interesting (but not applying runes to them)

Even realy wicked combo like :

Fire wand of poison damage
Fire wand of explosion 10-15 (area damage)
Fire wand of Cold protection.... (? why not?)

Im just brainstorming some ideas here. Are the programmers so freaked out about leveling the players and pvp, that they will forget to add new stuff?

How about getting blinded trigger an effect ala ale/drunk effect, and exploring visual tricks like that in actual gameplay time.

Anyway, I think there is room for more stuff.

Rhunex · Jun 09, 2005, 05:43 AM // 05:43

There's already a fire wand of poison damage, you use the Poisoners Head staff part on your wand and voila...poison damage. some of the things you're asking for are sort of wierd, and you have to remember that the mods you can get on a sword, axe, hammer, staff, bow, mace, are pretty much all the same except the +1 skill mod which changes to fit the items it goes to. With the mods you're asking for, weapons would give power players a huge edge, because they're the ones who grind, and farm, and get those items. Wepaons as they are, you get 2 upgrades per weapon, and a lot of weapons, you get a secondary defensive item to go along with it, like a Protective Icon, or a shield. So, you get all the mods on your weapon/shield(or shield like item).

Example:
Furious Fiery Dragonsword of Fortitude
Fire Damage:15-22
Double Adrenaline on Hit
+20 Health

Shield of the Wing
Defense: 16
+20 Health

With anything else capable on weapons, W/Mo would be more "indestructible" then they are now...except against elementalist which would just make it take longer to kill them(no real problem, give a few more seconds)

The items in the later parts of the game usually have these qualities:
1. Maximum Damage
2. 2 Mods(if name is in blue, purple or gold, result may vary)
3. Look great, but require a perfect attribute(like 12 hammer mastery) to use to max damage. This way, people who have great looking armor and weapons, can show off, and show people just through what they wear that they are, in-fact, hard to beat up.
4. And best of all, normal items(white named) sell high to merchants. Just think of how much you can milk the gold items for.

ahwooz · Jun 09, 2005, 08:15 AM // 08:15

Agree the rune trader has also soured me. There might as well be a rare weapons seller now. There is joy in finidng an item that is really rare(such as superior runes used to be) but now it has been taken away for i guess balance issues. Like the poster above said if everything is to be balanced then the monsters should just drop gold(shudder). I myself like pvp but i also like pve and since i ahve beaten the game with two characters i have nothing to do now but to hunt for cool stuff or buy it, but now one source of income(runes) has been unnessarily nerffed. Really the only thing that need to happen in this patch was to fix the giants boots. pre-giants boots the market was fine. And if you want to eliminate bots and not nerf giants boots just give the archers in snactum cay pin down and the hellhound cripple. just my two cents

Silmor · Jun 09, 2005, 11:24 AM // 11:24

A poisoner staff head lengthens poison duration on foe. There's no such thing as 'poison' type damage; poison is an inflictable condition.

Furious Fiery Dragonsword of Fortitude is impossible to make in this game, 'Fiery' is already a hilt upgrade to a sword which is fixed in place for all Dragon Swords, so there's no room to add a Furious sword hilt. The fixed hilt on Dragon Swords was implemented to prevent abuse on Warrior/Elementalists using Zealous Dragon Swords in combination with Conjure Flame.

Bazooka · Jun 09, 2005, 02:13 PM // 14:13

I agree that the game is easier to get loot now.
This does not however, spoil the game for me. In fact, because I play this game for PvP primarily it makes me giggle that its easier for my team and my opponents to get "required" gear.

I sympathize with people who play this game only to loot-***** but I never did see the glory in bragging about items.

Sandman Uk · Jun 09, 2005, 03:07 PM // 15:07

I was told that there was super Rare RED drops? Is this an Urban Myth. Ive seen Blue,Purple,and Gold. Are we likely to see Reds????

Also when is the Sorrows Furnace update comming. I hate to say it on such a great game but im bored. All missions have been completed and I have 1 quest left to do. I still need Underworld to fully complete but waiting for Europe to Win the halls is taking its toll. Not much into PVP gameplay

All theres left to do is farm for a rare drop and now everones getting rare Runes so no fun in putting in the hours to sell it for 5k.

Epinephrine · Jun 09, 2005, 03:28 PM // 15:28

It's a PvP game; it was advertised as such, so the PvE compnent, while a fun play, is meant as training for PvP. It's a tough situation; Arenanet is trying to cater to two completely different audiences - I'd bet that they really could split it into two games and please more people, a long, grindable PvE slog with gear that is rare and all that, including a special PvE only set of arenas for the folks who enjoy the middle ground, and a PvP portion with UAS and all items available - in which you are truly testing skill and builds. The best way to please both ends it would seem, is to have the PvE component completely separate from the PvP (with the exception of training the same skills, after all, skill in one translates to the other to some extent), with PvE arenas the middle ground. That would allow them to keep in farming, add rarity, please the grinding crowd and still allow a real PvP environment with no limitations. The PvE arenas would then be a place to show off your godly gear and beat on those with less time to farm, and would keep the grinder crowd happy, while those in the mood for PvP that doesn't measure your time online but your skill instead could play PvP only arenas.

RTSFirebat · Jun 09, 2005, 03:33 PM // 15:33

er... it is? Its called a CORPG... not a COPvP game... sounds to me to be a hybrid of both worlds... and diving everyone up is surely not the answer now is it?

pionata · Jun 09, 2005, 03:38 PM // 15:38

The PvE game is around 30 hours... While I got bored of the same PvP maps in about 5-10 hours. Its realy not ONLY a PvP game, else there would be much more gameplay types, maps and effort going into it (I find it seriously lacking variety).

Even when the maps are different the area does not realy affect the gameplay for team battles.

And there is map which have problems, like the lava map.

It also need a few more different area like tomb.

Example, Free for all with 6 teams realy doesnt work all that well when 3 teams are fighting together. Its like 2 against 1 (yay fun). Or the usual: "wait 'til the yellow kill the red and has a big DP before attacking."

I have no suggestion for PvP atm. But I think the PvE importance is not to be ignore.

Juhanah · Jun 09, 2005, 03:55 PM // 15:55

I dont even understand why people absolutely want to grind for items and such in a game based around skills that advertized no grind and no "godly weapon/armor".
Even tho there's a minimal grinding to do. They try to reduce it not to make people angry, but because this is not what they wanted in the first place.

People get angry because Arenanet try to keep their promise about not having grind by finding solution about it.

People kinda make me laugh when they are looking for "Godly weapon" or think they are un-beatable because of their rune of superior whatever. Instead of thinking about godly weapons they should think about godly skill set and godly teamwork.

Item are just backup for most profession. I finished the game on my monk without a single rune and a crappy 7-10 holy staff with a +1energy mod. And we had a flawless victory on the last mission.. No one died once. It's not our godly weapon that helped us, its the party working togeter and having fun playing a wonderful game. We didn't work our way to the end.. we played it!

Lewick · Jun 09, 2005, 05:05 PM // 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juhanah

I dont even understand why people absolutely want to grind for items and such in a game based around skills that advertized no grind and no "godly weapon/armor".
Even tho there's a minimal grinding to do. They try to reduce it not to make people angry, but because this is not what they wanted in the first place.

For people who enjoy PvE but do not enjoy PvP, there are only a few things that provide some sense of accomplishment in the game. These are:

- Leveling (limited to 19 "dings")
- Gaining new skills
- Questing
- Missions
- Mission bonuses
- Getting rare items

The first 5 of the above are finite; the last item provides an infinite amount of replayability. The rune trader effectively negated part of that for me. I can go buy a rune from a rune trader that I would normally spend time in PvE trying to get.

I'm concerned with the changes. It won't keep me from carrying around my identification and expert salvage kits, but it did negate my replaying areas in order to hopefully get a rune of superior vigor.

Yes, the min/max folks don't have nearly as much to talk about in this particular game due to the level sophistication of the combat system. Items will not give you a substantial improvement over your basic setup. However, for PvE people, the content is all there is, and some people enjoy spending time out there looking for an item that will give them a 0.5% improvement.

ahwooz · Jun 09, 2005, 11:35 PM // 23:35

completely agree with the above poster. To people that enjoy PVE it is not a grind it a joy to find that one rare item. I have beatern the game and since i can only spend so much time in pvp i like to hunt for rare items. I mean what else is there to do? I have all the elite skills and the missions have run out. now that a rune trader has been implemented i cannot even earn money with rare runes. Either add more missions or make the rune trader reflect the market price. 25 gold for a superior rune is rediculous. Next thing that you know is that there will be a weapon component trader selling 30Hp sword grips for 500gold.

warblek · Jun 10, 2005, 02:26 PM // 14:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epinephrine

It's a PvP game; it was advertised as such

You'll have to show me the ads you saw where it was billed as only a pvp game. If, like a lot of people, you went to www.guildwars.com, you know, the site of the people who made the game, to learn about the game you'd find on this page:

http://www.guildwars.com/gameinfo/default.html

...that the entire first two paragraphs talk strictly about PvE and PvP isn't even mentioned until the 5th paragraph.

Thanks.

DarrenJasper · Jun 10, 2005, 04:43 PM // 16:43

Also from guildwars.com:

Quote:

The game is designed to reward player skill and teamwork, not time spent playing, so you won't need to spend hundreds of hours leveling up your character to compete.

Guilds can challenge other guilds to battle, compete for control of key parts of the world, and be ranked on a worldwide ladder

Guild Wars heroes come in all types: male and female, large and small, and in any of 36 combinations of the six professions: Warrior, Ranger, Monk, Elementalist, Mesmer, and Necromancer. With more than 150 unique skills per character, which can be combined for any number of effects, the possibilities are mind boggling.

You don't have to spend countless hours on a leveling treadmill to get to the interesting parts of the game, because combat is designed to be strategically interesting and challenging right from the beginning. You don't have to spend hours running around the world to prepare for a quest, because Guild Wars allows you to instantly travel to the beginning of any quest that you've previously unlocked. You'll never spend days playing, only to discover that the choices you made early have left you with a permanently uncompetitive character. The unique skill system in Guild Wars encourages infinite experimentation

new mission-based design that eliminates some of the more tedious aspects of those games

both easy to learn and compelling to play long term, and yet does not require players to spend hundreds of hours slogging through the preparation just to get to the fun bits.

we prefer to call it a CORPG (Competitive Online Role-Playing Game).

Success in Guild Wars is always the result of player skill, not time spent playing

Thanks.

Tactical-Dillusions · Jun 10, 2005, 05:18 PM // 17:18

How about a rare chance of finding item upgrades that are specific to the person finding them?
I hate going out in a group only to find abnormal seeds and bone staffs which are completely useless to me.
The collectors are a key idea in my opinion rather than altering the drop system.
Why not make each collector a sort of semi crafter/collector who will make you anything you desire. (weapons/runes etc) So for example, if i want the most amazing bow that is possible and has max damage with all the extras, i would have to venture far and wide to acquire a massive list of materials ranging from granite, charr hides, charcoal and various quest items (see below).
I would happily spend many days venturing far and wide for a list of 50+ items for my super weapon. WOW, what a change of pve that would create! So interesting and absorbing.
You could add further variety by making class-specific collectors too.
Just find the ranger collector (somewhere in tyria, hopefully a difficult place) and select what you want from a drop menu.
flatbow > damage > grip > string > special attribute.
"OK, this is a great bow that you require Beast Master Archer! I can get this specific bow for you but i need the following items from you......."

It would be like a super quest which would take ages to complete but would be so satisfying to get that super weapon and i wouldn't need to spend countless weeks trying to get that weapon or something comparably close to it through farming.

Quest items. Specially made items could use "special" ingedients from certain characters in the game. For example, a bottle of wood preservative from master ranger nente.

Its basically the crafter idea but it's taken further.
People wouldn't need to farm for the great items they desire, but just kill a few of x creature to get x material and on to the next resource they need.

Unfortunately, unless these crafted items are made "unlocked", it does nothing to help the pvp situation. At least i am trying to throw ideas into the void.
I sure would love this advanced class specific crafter/collector idea.

Lewick · Jun 10, 2005, 06:22 PM // 18:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarrenJasper

Also from guildwars.com:
Thanks.

And if you had any clue what they were talking about or had played any of the games they're referencing, instead of just being your typical inane self, you'd understand that the context you just quoted has absolutely no relevance to this thread.

Quote:

The game is designed to reward player skill and teamwork, not time spent playing, so you won't need to spend hundreds of hours leveling up your character to compete.

You don't have to spend countless hours on a leveling treadmill to get to the interesting parts of the game, because combat is designed to be strategically interesting and challenging right from the beginning. You don't have to spend hours running around the world to prepare for a quest, because Guild Wars allows you to instantly travel to the beginning of any quest that you've previously unlocked. You'll never spend days playing, only to discover that the choices you made early have left you with a permanently uncompetitive character. The unique skill system in Guild Wars encourages infinite experimentation

Both of the above are referring to specific elements in games like Everquest and WoW. The hundreds of hours of leveling comment specifically targets these games. The questing system they're referring to is almost directly a reference to the fact that in Everquest and WoW, you have to collect quest components that take sometimes months to find. This has absolutely no bearing on this discussion, as nobody has even complained about leveling rates or quests taking forever.

Quote:

both easy to learn and compelling to play long term, and yet does not require players to spend hundreds of hours slogging through the preparation just to get to the fun bits.

This is in reference to getting to the high level games in the above mentioned games. Both of them require a massive number of hours just to be competitive in the high level game. Without unlocking anything, you can be competitive in the high level game of Guild Wars, both in PvE and PvP. Nobody is disputing this at all. It's irrelevant to the discussion.

Quote:

Success in Guild Wars is always the result of player skill, not time spent playing

Success in ANY game is based just as much around skill as equipment. Equipment can give you an edge, but if you suck as a player, you're going to lose. It's yet another irrelevant quote for this discussion.

You don't appear to understand what the people that enjoy PvE are saying. I'm not talking about farmers here. I'm talking about the people that want replayability from the game that are your average PvE-style people. The latest changes in drops effects these players. Reducing drops effectively reduces the replayability for these folks. Rare drops are not always bought/sold by the PvE community. I, for one, have an entire character filled with rare stuff, from rare axe handles to superior runes. I've never sold a single thing in the game because there's no point to it for me. I'm in the game for discovery, exploration, missions, figuring out how to beat the PvE content, and having fun.

Everquest provided thousands of hours of replayability because they understood this concept. WoW has thousands of hours of replayability because they also understand this concept. This game COULD have thousands of hours of replayability, if they would simply understand that a large portion of their player base are out there to discover new things and explore new areas.

Guild Wars has the best game mechanics of any RPG-style game I've ever played. I think they have an incredible opportunity to be one of the best PvE games (not MMORPG) ever. They just need to figure out a way to balance the PvE discovery aspect against the PvP encounters and not blindly cater to one or the other.

pionata · Jun 10, 2005, 07:47 PM // 19:47

The problem is that all this effort to level up the game for everyone as reached an excessive point. The result will be masses of players using the same best skills, with the same best equipment (Chaos axes lol duh, how original), and the best teamtrick to wins (spell breaker on monk, etc.).
For me it seems to be the direction the game updates are aiming. I would prefer a slightly unbalanced game, where everyone plays differently with different skills, different weapons upgrades, has different items and different runes.

It is not only a PvE and PvP matter. Im actualy more worried about the PvP side of the game now. (Even if im pissed off about not caring about any drops anymore)

Edit : What I meant to say is that I fear the upcomming "uniformity" in playing tactics.

DarrenJasper · Jun 10, 2005, 10:59 PM // 22:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lewick

And if you had any clue what they were talking about or had played any of the games they're referencing, instead of just being your typical inane self, you'd understand that the context you just quoted has absolutely no relevance to this thread.

Both of the above are referring to specific elements in games like Everquest and WoW. The hundreds of hours of leveling comment specifically targets these games. The questing system they're referring to is almost directly a reference to the fact that in Everquest and WoW, you have to collect quest components that take sometimes months to find. This has absolutely no bearing on this discussion, as nobody has even complained about leveling rates or quests taking forever.

This is in reference to getting to the high level games in the above mentioned games. Both of them require a massive number of hours just to be competitive in the high level game. Without unlocking anything, you can be competitive in the high level game of Guild Wars, both in PvE and PvP. Nobody is disputing this at all. It's irrelevant to the discussion.

Success in ANY game is based just as much around skill as equipment. Equipment can give you an edge, but if you suck as a player, you're going to lose. It's yet another irrelevant quote for this discussion.

You don't appear to understand what the people that enjoy PvE are saying. I'm not talking about farmers here. I'm talking about the people that want replayability from the game that are your average PvE-style people. The latest changes in drops effects these players. Reducing drops effectively reduces the replayability for these folks. Rare drops are not always bought/sold by the PvE community. I, for one, have an entire character filled with rare stuff, from rare axe handles to superior runes. I've never sold a single thing in the game because there's no point to it for me. I'm in the game for discovery, exploration, missions, figuring out how to beat the PvE content, and having fun.

Everquest provided thousands of hours of replayability because they understood this concept. WoW has thousands of hours of replayability because they also understand this concept. This game COULD have thousands of hours of replayability, if they would simply understand that a large portion of their player base are out there to discover new things and explore new areas.

Guild Wars has the best game mechanics of any RPG-style game I've ever played. I think they have an incredible opportunity to be one of the best PvE games (not MMORPG) ever. They just need to figure out a way to balance the PvE discovery aspect against the PvP encounters and not blindly cater to one or the other.

Wow, okay. I guess I did competely misunderstand. I was under the impression that you guys wanted good drops so that you can have better equipment and be more effective, but you just want good drops for the sake of getting good drops, and the impact those items you get have on the game is completely irrelevant to you!

Hell, somebody let ANet know all they have to do to please the PvE crowd is sprinkle the game with fascinating and colorful widgets for them to loot and show to their friends. They don't even have to do anything, but they could have stats like "Specialness +10" or "+5 Protection vs. Looking Like Everyone Else".

Forgive me for being so profoundly mistaken about your inner desires, sir!

P.S. This game has replayability for the people it was made for

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lewick

Success in ANY game is based just as much around skill as equipment. Equipment can give you an edge, but if you suck as a player, you're going to lose. It's yet another irrelevant quote for this discussion.

No. Maybe we define "skill" differently. My definition of skill is "proficiency beyond what a chimp could be trained to do in an hour". Most MMOs on the market as of now don't require skill as I define it, your equipment is what makes or breaks any encounter.